Continuous Functioning Items

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Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Azmon » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:52 pm

What's the pricing on a permanent/continuous functioning item. Do we go by the same rules for item creation in the DMG? I heard we're not really supposed to use that which is why I'm asking.
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Ian » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:07 pm

The DMG table is somewhat helpful, in the hands of someone who knows how to read it properly (frankly, many people don't), as a rule of thumb to supplement/in the absence of other factors for evaluating how much a given item should cost. That's all, though, and to reiterate a point I've made to people about 389,000 times, that's all the DMG ever claims it to be.

Right: "The DMG suggests my item should be worth 7,000g--4K for power X, and 2K for power Y, with a 50% premium on the latter as a non-similar power. It's kinda similar to the Cloak of Face-Stabbing +12, though, which runs 6,000 by itself, and gives a +2 bonus to my Ass Kicking ability, which sounds like a typical 1K x bonus squared enhancement, or 4,000 more. So it's definitely worth *at least* 7K, but it's probably closer to 10 or 12,000. Thoughts, DMs?"

Wrong: "I buy a Belt of Infinite Cure Light Wounds for 1,800g. Table 7-33 says so, so you're stupid if you don't let me do it. Oh, and I grab some Bracers of Shield for the same amount. Hold on, there's some angry moustachioed dude at my door, and it looks like he has a DMG and some forceps."

Does that answer the question? (I lose track sometimes.)
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Azmon » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:26 pm

Yes and no *g*, Was mainly pertaining to a permanently functioning item of Alter Self, however, the closest comparison would be a Hat(item) of Disguise which doesn't really help since it's quite different including spell level, plus I'd just like to know the mechanics used. :P
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Ian » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:15 pm

To get back to this finally:

A continuous alter self item is more or less impossible, if only because you'd have to list all of the potential forms you can gain from that spell, list all the potential powers you'd gain from each, figure out what any of them would cost to have continuously, and then figure out pricing based on that. (This is because you could technically have any of those potential powers at any time.) Er...no thanks.

However, such an item allowing an at-will shift into one single form (leggings of the lizardman, for instance) would be much more doable. My temptation for pricing would be to evaluate each of the changes that shift would make, and basically price the item as if it was a single item giving you all of those powers at once.

To use our example, leggings of the lizardman, you've basically got an item that grants you: three basic natural weapons (2 claws and bite, no special DR properties), +4 to three skills (Balance/Jump/Swim), and +5 natural armor. The natural armor is 50K, each skill is (4 [bonus] ^2 x 100 [base price] * 1.5 [multiple powers] x 2 [non-standard type]) = 4800, and I'm not even sure what extra natural attacks run off the top of my head, but they're not cheap in the least (you basically get 2 extra attacks per round, albeit each at -5...a rogue can potentially turn that into an extra 20d6/round). The disguise functionality is more or less a moot point by comparison.

Yeah, I've probably just described a >70,000 gp item...which does make sense when you look at the fact that you just grabbed an item that grants a continuous +1 level adjustment. Woo.
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby tachus » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:34 pm

i know this is off topic but i gotta say...

Ian... your responses make my day sometimes... :lol:
"Oderint Dum Metuant" - Emperor Caligula

"Experience is not what happens to a man; It is what a man does with what happens to him." - Aldous Huxley

PCs: Sambiir TaKorc-Wands, Vairc Delvaux, Kell Ironclaw, Zander Stormwave
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Azmon » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:23 pm

Bumps with another question.
What about having an Alter Self: Human item that only functions only on humans or someone changed via polymorph other, reincarnate, etc. to return the wearer to his or her natural form which would be human.
Last edited by Azmon on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Stam » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:53 pm

Sounds like what you want here is a nonillusion version (read: cannot be penetrated short of true seeing) of the Hat of Disguise.

Taking Ian's approach above, and specifying that this item can only make you Human...that's probably going to be priced at/around the equivalent of a +10 to the Disguise skill, so ... ballpark 10k?
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Azmon » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:54 am

Ya pretty much that's what I was going for. Looks real, feels real and sounds real, with no other benefits than to just look human I guess in whatever way you choose.
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Re: Continuous Functioning Items

Postby Stam » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:14 pm

...the devils in my head made me do it!

Earring of Fool'd Twice
Price (Item level): 7,500 gp (4th)
Body Slot: Face (Earring)
Caster Level: 3rd.
Aura: Moderate (DC 17) Transmutation
Activation: - and Standard (command); see text
Weight: - (earring)

Every time you look at this white gold earring, it seems to have changed its appearance very slightly. But upon closer inspection, you just aren't sure.

Upon command, this earring changes the wearer's physical form to mimic that of any human subrace you are familiar with. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for the designated human subrace. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s subrace. Armor and equipment worn or carried at the time the command is spoken alters slightly to fit the new form, and you can remain in this form indefinitely.

While under the effects of an earring of fool'd twice, you are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s subrace. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

Alternative versions exist for those who want to emulate different races (currently there is one version for elves and one for halflings, as few people care to emulate half-races or gnomes).

Craft requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, alter self.

Cost calculations: I specifically did NOT reference the alter self spell, as that produces many many potential problems. Instead, this is a hat of disguise, which provides an actual change of physical form and equipment accommodation instead of an easily-pierced illusion of same. (Now you need True Seeing or a proper Spot check.) The limitation, of course, is to Human subraces only (or as alternate versions, elves or halflings and their subraces) and provides the appropriate physical appearance only. There are no mechanical adjustments (add or lose) other than the situational Disguise bonus. While technically the elven version would allow you to assume the form of an Avariel, you would not gain flight or any of their racial benefits. Just useless wings.

The Disguise bonus, if unfettered, would yield an approximate price around 10,000 gp. (I say approximate because even in the DMG, not every skill-enhancer is measured the same. Spot vs. Search, in particular.) An at-will usage of Alter Self at CL 3 and measured by the DMG table (*ducks thrown DMG!*) would fall at very much the same (10,800) so that's not a bad place to start.

Being that it is limited to one race only, I'd say that goes as a "substantial limitation" justifying a price cut of 25%. So 7,500 gp is my best guess here - unless it's rated at even less due to it being able to emulate one race out of a dozen playable.
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