1st level spell item continuous effect

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1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby Kemian » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:43 pm

I am thinking specifically of a pair of goggles or mask or similar face slot item with the Ebon Eyes enchantment on it for continuous effect.

I am aware that a use per day item would cost 360 GP retail for 1/day.

How much would the continuous effect be and would this be somewhat standard for any 1st level spell effects that were continuous.

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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby Azmon » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:14 pm

Am curious about this as well and the formula.
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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby Ian » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:05 pm

You're aware that Ye Olde Table 7-33 says it'd be 360g for 1/day. That does not necessarily translate to it actually being 360g for a 1/day item (though it might in fact work out to that). I have to quote from another post I've made in this forum:

Ian wrote:On price evals specifically, if you cite me Table 7-33 in any fashion as if it should answer your question, I am likely to find out where you live and turn your copy of the DMG into a suppository. Assume, in the interests of your rectum remaining egress-only, that I know that table by heart, acknowledge its advisory value, and otherwise don't care fvck-all about what it says.

My point there: declarations of "It'll be X gp because the formula says so" are about the fastest way to get my goat, because it almost always means the hard step (research similar items for points of comparison) that's supposed to come first has been skipped, and now I get to do that step instead.

With that by-now-required disclaimer duly noted, we'll look at the questions directly:

To answer the secondary question first, no, whatever we decide here would not be standard for any continuous 1st-level effect. A continuous mage armor item is otherwise known as bracers of armor +4, and runs 16,000 gp. A ring of jumping (giving you continuous jump) is priced as a skill-booster, and would run 10,000g. A continuous item of true strike would be priced as granting a +20 insight attack bonus, and thus has a market price of approximately 800,000 gp. While not a 1st-level effect, boots of levitation are another good example--by 7-33, they should be 24K gold, but DMG has them listed at 7500g.

For charged or continuous items (especially the latter), spells are evaluated first with regards to what they do, not what level they are. With duration, targeting, and other variables coming into play on the spell far more than on an item, you simply can't do it any other way.

That said, for ebon eyes:
This is how we do pricing! wrote:While goggles of night and the rod of cats (for darkvision and LLV, respectively) seem like they might be usable as a basis, doing some more research reveals an item that gives us almost exactly what we want: DotU's gloom mask, which is what we'll use as our base.

A gloom mask gives us see in darkness 3/day out to 30 feet for 5 rounds, as well as the effect as a Lesser Rod of Metamagic (Widen) that applies only to [Darkness] spells. The item runs 3,000 gp altogether.

For the sake of easy math, we'll assume the two powers are worth about the same, giving us 1,500g for a five-round see in darkness 3/day.

I'll likewise suggest that seeing through all darkness to 30 feet is roughly equivalent to seeing through magical darkness at any range. One gives you both darkvision and SiD around you, but the other lets you penetrate darkness generated at a distance to conceal traps or ambushes, making the two equally situational. Under that assumption, a 3/day ebon eyes item that lasts 5 rounds per charge would be worth about 1,500g.

(That also starts to answer our question on what a 1/day ebon eyes at its standard 10-minute duration is worth. Note that it's not looking like 360g.)

Now we can start to look at Table 7-33 and see what sort of estimate we get. Thrice-per-day items are typically worth about 60% of a continuous item, and 1500 / 0.6 = 2500.

On top of that, however, the effect in this case is clearly being evaluated as a round/level effect instead of a 10m/level effect; that wouldn't matter as much as a charged item, but for a continuous item it makes all the difference in the world. (Round/level effects are much more potent than longer-lasting effects of the same level.) The table says round/level effects are worth 4x the base value, so an item permanently granting you the ability to see through magical darkness should run about 10,000 gp.

That's Table 7-33's input, but it doesn't quite pass the smell test to me; it seems high. (Yeah, this part is all opinion-based; again, item-pricing is often subjective.) Let's fall back and look at our initial points of comparison (DV/LLV) to get another estimate: I don't think it's as useful as 60-foot darkvision (which runs 12K gold), but it seems more useful than LLV (which, depending on the source you look at and the math you use, runs between 2K and 6K).

We'll go with the lower/newer value on LLV of 2K, and then we'll split it between LLV and DV to get 7,000 gp. That comes closer to looking right to me, so we'll call that a final price.

For the tl;dr crowd: the first step in pricing an item is always to look for already-existing items that do something similar, get a rough estimate based on that, and only then consult the tables. It's not as easy or pretty as checking a table right off or having an all-purpose formula, but it gets us a more accurate result based on an item's true utility and worth...and it gives you the research burden instead of me, which is frankly where I think it should be. *g*
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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby J.C. » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:21 pm

and it gives you the research burden instead of me, which is frankly where I think it should be. *g*

Acknowledged
But damn it Ian, you have such a vaster knowledge base than all but maybe Stam and it is much easier if you do it :)
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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby Kemian » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:48 pm

You're aware that Ye Olde Table 7-33 says it'd be 360g for 1/day. That does not necessarily translate to it actually being 360g for a 1/day item (though it might in fact work out to that). I have to quote from another post I've made in this forum:


Perhaps I was unclear in my previous post. I had meant to say that based on previous conversation that I had and previous treasure award. That a face slot item with a 1/day charge of Ebon Eyes had been placed at 360 GP Market value.

With that said, next time I will try to do a bit more digging now that I know there is no magic bullet for 1st or any other spell as a continuous item.

Thanks for the assessment.
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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby Wanderer » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:41 pm

well, i'm going to be saving up forever to improve Myria's goggles then. oh joy. thanks for the info.
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Re: 1st level spell item continuous effect

Postby JuneBarcarolle » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:40 am

Awwwww. And here I was thinking that continuous +20 insight bonus was sounding pretty good. :mrgreen:

*ducks and runs*
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