Mass Snake's Swiftness

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Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby NachtWulf » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:43 am

Question 1:
When someone casts mass snake's swiftness, do all the additional attacks occur immediately during the caster's turn? Here's an example.

Init order: [Wizard X, Practice dummy, Snorlax]

Snorlax is adjacent to the practice dummy and also a couple feet from Wizard X. The wiz casts mass snake's swiftness. Does Snorlax get to attack immediately after the wizard casts the spell, and before the dummy's turn in init? Or does Snorlax get his bonus attack at the start of his own turn?


Question 2:
Suppose Wizard X casts mass snake's swiftness, but Snorlax is 30 feet away from the practice dummy. If Snorlax isn't capable of ranged attacks, does he lose his additional attack from the spell?

Question 3:
Now, Snorlax is within a 5' step of the dummy, but isn't threatening the dummy. Wiz X casts the spell. Does Snorlax get the additional attack as a part of a full-round action, if he 5' steps towards the dummy before his attacks? Is the chance to take the attack long gone before his turn? Or does his lethargy override the effect of the spell, since he'll never be as swift as a snake?
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby Waldron » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:42 am

Why am I being used in this example? :D
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby NachtWulf » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:48 am

Waldron wrote:Why am I being used in this example? :D


I would've used a Goldeen, too, but those tend to have a tough time attacking on land and would cause even more of a rules hassle. Also, I sneakily moved you away from the bridge when you weren't looking.
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby Stam » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:55 am

Reading the spell...

  • It's an immediate attack on the wizard's turn (and it uses the word immediate). It takes no action of your own and has no effect on your turn's actions.
  • The spell allows a single melee or ranged attack, "following the standard rules for attacking."
  • if you're already under a haste spell or similar effect, and have already used that effect this round to make an extra attack, this spell has no effect. (Assume vice versa if you take this attack and have haste running, you can't take that extra attack on your turn.

So that answers one of your questions immediately: they can't delay the extra attack until their turn. There's also no mention of any allowed movement, even 5' steps, so those are probably out as well

Assumedly, you have to be able to make the attack with what you have on hand - if you don't have a ranged weapon drawn and aren't currently within melee range, you would lose the spell effect. Ditto (probably? Quick Draw may allow) if you haven't drawn a weapon yet.

More things to ponder:
What if you are flatfooted? Can you still take the attack?
Can you use a ranged or melee spell which requires an attack roll? (On this one I'm assuming no, as casting a spell is typically a Standard Action, not an Attack Action. Unless the spell is already cast but allows multiple attacks, or you are holding the charge at the time Snake's Swiftness goes into effect.
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby Kemian » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:31 am

In response to Can you make a spell attack as the immediate action I would say that a spell that was already active and needed some sort of Melee or Ranged attack to Discharge, then you should be able to do that but as you stated most spells are standard actions and as such would not be able to be cast as part of the immediate action.
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby NachtWulf » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:26 pm

Another way to interpret the spell:

Does it basically grant all your party members an AoO on whatever they can get their hands on? (Well, ranged attacks included.)
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby JuneBarcarolle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:44 pm

The wording of the base spell Snake's Swiftness implies that the bonus attack is on the caster's turn. It specifically states that this bonus attack doesn't affect the target's place in the initiative order, which means (to me) that the attack isn't taking place on the attacker's turn but the caster's turn. The mass version operates the same way, but affects multiple targets.

So in answer to your questions:

1) The attacks happen when the spell is cast, not on the targets's individual turns.

2) The spell only grants a bonus attack, not a full turn. So if the target of the spell doesn't have a weapon in hand that he can attack with and doesn't have a means to acquire one during someone else's turn, the effect is wasted.

3) I think #2 may have answered this already, but... In order to be threatening a creature, the pc needs to have a weapon of some sort in hand that he can attack with and be close enough to the creature to actually attack with it. Assuming he meets this criteria, he could attack when the spell is cast. But the bonus attack is not added to his own full round attacks. The spell does not grant movement in order for people to be able to reach something.

Basically throw this spell at your allies after they're already mixing it up with the monsters, not before then. This is not a prep spell.
I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
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Re: Mass Snake's Swiftness

Postby NachtWulf » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:13 pm

Thanks for the clarifications, all. I had been wondering about it because I had seen different interpretations of the spell used in the past, and wanted to know which way was right. All is cleared up.
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