Class Tweak Suggestions

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Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Murdling » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:51 pm

Okay, I know I did this for Warlock but it has oft been mentioned to me some other classes badly need simple tweaks too so I put thought into them just to be fair. I've tried to keep all of this largely simple and modular for ease of approval or denial. If anyone has suggestions for different ways to do any of this chime in freely.

Fighter Fixes
--Add the following to class kills: Balance, Tumble
--Every 3rd level: +1 to saves vs. fear, Listen, Spot
--Every 4th level: +1 to Str/Dex checks (also balance, climb, swim, jump)
--Every 5th level: +1 Dodge bonus to AC / -1 to all ACPs
--Every 6th level: x2 to all Weapon Focus/Specialization bonuses


Reasons: Fighter clearly needs more help than the average class regarding not sucking so hard it caves the party in around it. Now a soldier is supposed to be trained to be more alert, mobile, and in control on a battlefield than the common man. To this end it seemed fitting to slide in bonuses to the common perception and movement skills (Not adding skill points - that would just leave them spent in random other places odds are) and to saves vs. fear (not will saves as a whole, a fighter is still a mundane melee specialist. But someone whose life is combat should not be easily spooked.) As to the final addition my whole reasoning was that those feats beyond weapon focus are the only unique feature a fighter gets as they currently are, and they are so laughably bad as to be meaningless beyond the first 4 levels of the game or so. Multiplying them to x2, and eventually 3 and 4 would mean Weapon Focus provides a solid +4 to hit and Specialization a +8 to damage. Hit-per-hit this at least has SOME impact toward late game, and their greater variants likewise become a notable source of improvement. Now the greater variants of those feats require Fighter 8 and Fighter 12 respectively so I don't think they'll cause upsets at their respective entries into the game. That's also a hell of an investment in Fighter to get to them.

Monk Fixes
--Full Base Attack
--Every 4th level: +1 effective enhancement to fists, or equivalent.


Monk is as we all know the biggest joke in the core classes, which is saying something when it stands alongside Fighter. It's a primary melee class without full base attack which is just a travesty to begin with, and suffers greatly from it's primary intended weapon (it's fists) being difficult to keep relevant next to the ever improving magic weapons of other combative types. Hence the full base attack and the slow improvement of their fists' natural abilities. Now I'm hesitant to tweak too much else because it actually does have a lot of class features - they just are more than a little slapdash and some are hard to apply with lower base attack. Well now that's not an issue.

Hexblade Fixes
--Add the following to class skills: Handle Animal (to go with Ride), Sense Motive, Use Magic Device
--Good Fort Save
--Bonus Feats at 5th level: add Luck, Familiar, and Heritage feats to the allowable list


I know there's kind of already a Hexblade 2.0 out there but that's PHB2 stuff, we don't go there. However they're clearly front line melee that for some reason lacks a decent Fort save which I find strange and illogical. Their list of class skills is also very small and lacking a few things that would ordinarily seem like logical additions.

Paladin Fixes
--Turn Undead at full Cleric potency
--Good Will Save
--Every 5th level: bonus Fighter or Divine feat


Actually worse off than Hexblades but for different reasons. The Paladin is a front line fighter yes, but they're supposed to be half priest as well. Turn Undead is already something you have to stack your stats to make meaningful in use so it seems utterly pointless to give them a nerfed version of it compared to Clerics. Yes a Paladin has somewhat more incentive to stack Charisma but that only partially makes up the distance. Further the idea of a holy oriented class - half priest as said earlier - with a bad will save seems kind of stupid. The bonus feats are in place because I really am kind of using Hexblade as a framework here. They're both pseudo-casters that are a few steps shy of being competitive with their peers - they just have the opposite sides of the coin covered better and need to meet somewhere in the middle.

Rogue Fixes
--Every 5th level: bonus Open Minded, Skill Focus, Luck, or Ambush feat.
--Every 4th level: bonus Skill Trick


There are never enough skill points. Furthermore when you can get just as many with Scout and have bonus feats and other features as well as a sneak attack analogue, or slightly less but an expanded list with Factotum (and Intelligence synergy), or slightly less but a huge combat boost with Ranger? Rogue falls just a little bit behind the rest of it's flock, which it was supposed to be at the forefront of. It doesn't need much, maybe it can get by with nothing at all. However I felt compelled to offer the above suggestions - they fit the theme and might make it less painfully hard to split your skill points around to fill the 2-3 roles out of the 6 a Rogue's skill list can cover that you chose.

Warlock Fixes
--Add the following to class skills: Diplomacy
--Every 7th level: Bonus Heritage, Familiar, Item Creation, or Extra Invocation feat.


Okay, this one I have been slowly paring further and further down over time. Now the Diplomacy thing I won't budge about - it's idiotic that it's not in there for a potential party face and given that Beguiling Influence exists. All the thematics of a Warlock suggest it ought to have all the talky talky no murder please list and instead it for some reason only has two of the three. The second part is what's been pared down further and further. I've come to realize just how insane a Warlock's use of Use Magic Device can get and don't think it needs -that- much help, but that does still pigeon hole builds a great deal to make use of. Some people won't want to bother, some won't have the skill points for it (Very likely for a class that's got 2+int skills and has to fight between knowledges, socials, and UMD) and there needs to be enough in the class to make it flexible without having to dump some of your very few precious skills in every level for a feature that you have to pour gold (in our low gold site) into making meaningful. So I looked at the list of Warlock levels, I noticed that 7 and 14 are both levels where no Invocation comes into the list, just an eldritch blast die and in 7's case a single point of damage reduction. This seemed like an okay place for a long spread out bonus feat.

P.S. I still think core class alignment restrictions suck and should be abolished. Apart from Paladin = Good anyway.
Last edited by Murdling on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:53 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Azmon » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:33 pm

Those changes would make all those classes a bit more appealing and less underpowered, I like.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Murdling » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:28 pm

Bump
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Murdling » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:54 pm

Tweaked this around a bit and I admit I am thirsty for critique.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Murdling » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:46 am

Edited in a LOT of explanations and rebalanced some of this a bit again.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Stam » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:58 pm

Monk: Their main schtick is supposed to be their Flurry of Blows. I'd recommend you make that usable as a Standard Action (one additional attack at -2) either at L1 or L5. There's other ways you can get multiple attacks at or close to the second level point, so I wouldn't call it power-inappropriate.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Kemian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:07 pm

The DM team is aware that there are issues with certain classes especially at or above certain levels and in some cases like monk, completely broken from start to finish. We appreciate the efforts and suggestions being provided in this forum and we don't want any one to feel as though they are simply being ignored.

However,

At this time the DM team is not prepared to embark on any class tweaking of any kind. This is not to say that we will not in the future revisit this issue however, right now none of us have the time available or inclination to tackle this. If and when we do tackle this problem it will be in an effort to once and for all time even things out and close the book on rules changes in general and our efforts are likely to be unique and trying to address the real issue which is at higher levels some classes don't even seem to be playing the same game.

We appreciate everyone's interest in trying to make the site better and making the effort.

Thanks,

Kemian
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Murdling » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:10 pm

If my working on this was interpreted as impatience that wasn't the intent. Mostly it was just something for me to do. When it comes to rules changes I never really -expect- them to be implemented, only looked at. Which as you've said has already happened. =)
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby tooitalian » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:25 am

Someone make Murd a DM :twisted:
He who laughs last, laughs alone.
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Spectre » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:49 pm

I'd like to bump this thread in relation to the Hexblade. I would like to ask the staff if they would be willing to implement the suggested fixes by the creator of the class.

From WotC_Mearls (D&D Lead Designer)
The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play.

Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.

If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:

Good Fortitude save
Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
Curse ability usable as a swift action
Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.
The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage.

(These are by no means official. They're just off the top of my head changes I'd consider making.)
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Re: Class Tweak Suggestions

Postby Kemian » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:32 am

I would like to reiterate at this time the DM staff has no intentions of doing any sort of Class Tweaking for balance.
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