War Domain

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War Domain

Postby Kemian » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:14 pm

Under standard D20 3.5 rules A Cleric with the War Domain gets Martial Weapon Proficiency - Deity favored weapon and Weapon Focus in the same weapon.

The question was raised since per house rules all Clerics get MWP in their deity favored weapon would we consider adding something to the house rules to grant a Cleric with the war domain an additional feat in lieu of the MWP favored weapon. I raised the question to the DM team and we arrived at the same conclusion we have on many items similar to this one and that is in the interest of keeping house rules to as bare minimum as we can we are not going to further tweak a single domain based on a single change we have made via one house rule.

But in addition to that when this house rule was initially discussed the subject of the War Domain was directly considered before the rule was passed.

The difference between most Martials and their Simple equivalents is roughly +1 damage, so that's the rough actual effect of taking an MWP feat. The closest point of comparison, Weapon Focus, is +1 attack, which translates to about +1.5 to +2 damage depending on how you evaluate these things. Hence, MWP is worth roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of Weapon Focus, itself a baseline 1st-tier feat. Further, MWP's printed effect is the negation of a penalty, which is typically viewed as worth less than granting a bonus--not quantifiably so, but enough that it's safe to lean to the conservative side of the comparison. Result: MWP is actually worth half of a basic feat.


I explicitly took the War Domain into consideration when I proposed the rule. Its remaining benefit is still a bonus feat, which is in line with a lot of the other domains, while the power that it "loses" (by dint of all other clerics getting it for free) is worth little enough that we felt it didn't need anything else to compensate.

Also considered in this exchange: War Domain's slate of spells is pretty frickin' good, so it's still a very strong Domain choice even with a slightly "reduced" power. If the power was all the domain had going for it (which is certainly the case in some other cases), the calculus here might have been different.
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Re: War Domain

Postby Balegrog Moog » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:30 pm

Kemian wrote:
The difference between most Martials and their Simple equivalents is roughly +1 damage, so that's the rough actual effect of taking an MWP feat. The closest point of comparison, Weapon Focus, is +1 attack, which translates to about +1.5 to +2 damage depending on how you evaluate these things. Hence, MWP is worth roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of Weapon Focus, itself a baseline 1st-tier feat. Further, MWP's printed effect is the negation of a penalty, which is typically viewed as worth less than granting a bonus--not quantifiably so, but enough that it's safe to lean to the conservative side of the comparison. Result: MWP is actually worth half of a basic feat.




Rules as Printed wrote: A character who uses a weapon with which he or she is not proficient takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls.

When facing level appropriate threats that is a massive boost to combat effectiveness. Sure there may only be one point of damage difference between the weapons but that extra 4 out of 20 is much more of a chance to cause damage in the first place.
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Re: War Domain

Postby JuneBarcarolle » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:12 pm

There is a reason why a lot of characters take a level dip into fighter or ranger or one of the other classes that grants all martial weapon profs. If you're building a cleric that's going to be a primary meleer, a level of fighter can help a lot.

If you're wanting your war priest to be a solid cleric (i.e. no non-caster levels), a cleric's buffs can more than compensate what he lacks in weapon selection. A first level cleric can take a plain old 1d6 mace and turn it into 1d6+1 damage with an additional +1 to hit at the cost of one spell. That's better than just using a 1d8 damage long sword that a fighter has available at 1st level.
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Re: War Domain

Postby Balegrog Moog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:57 am

JuneBarcarolle wrote: A first level cleric can take a plain old 1d6 mace and turn it into 1d6+1 damage with an additional +1 to hit at the cost of one spell. That's better than just using a 1d8 damage long sword that a fighter has available at 1st level.


+1 to hit covered with the difference between Cleric BAB +0 and Fighter BAB +1. More so with most Clerics wanting High Wis scores for spells and fighters being able to put STR as their main... This also covers the difference of that +1 to damage. Then there is Fighter being able to use Greatsword for 2d6@ first level.
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