Native Outsider

A place to discuss the setting, rules and anything else Out of Character.

Moderator: Dungeon Masters

Native Outsider

Postby tooitalian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:33 am

So I've been looking at a few prestige classes, and some of the ones I've been looking at, such as Divine Disciple, change your type to Native Outsider.

Transcendence (Su): At 5th level, thanks to her frequent contact with outsiders and her deity's direct intervention, the divine disciple sheds her mortal form and becomes an outsider with the native subtype. This apotheosis grants her immunity to any spell or effect that does not affect outsiders (for example, charm person cannot affect her) as well as darkvision out to 60 feet, if she does not already have it. Because of her native subtype, however, the divine disciple must still eat, breathe, and sleep, and she can be reincarnated, raised, or resurrected normally. She also gains any alignment subtypes that match alignment components she has in common with her deity. Thus, a chaotic neutral divine disciple of a chaotic evil deity gains the chaotic subtype, and a divine disciple of a neutral deity gains no additional subtypes.


Immediately, I see a few bonuses that sound great (immunity to some spells, able to naturally overcome some weapon damage, and I think full BAB), but at the same time I see a few spells that are made to really hurt outsiders (Bolt of Glory and Affliction, to name a few)

Outsider Type
An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.

Features
An outsider has the following features.

8-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
Traits
An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


Are there any pros/cons that I am not seeing here?
He who laughs last, laughs alone.
User avatar
tooitalian
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Kemian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:58 am

It is a great deal harder to bring an Outsider back to life. That is the first draw back that comes to mind.
User avatar
Kemian
 
Posts: 967
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:34 am

Re: Native Outsider

Postby tooitalian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:24 am

Not with the native subtype. Reincarnation, resurrection, or raised works normally.
He who laughs last, laughs alone.
User avatar
tooitalian
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Murdling » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:12 am

Note: Outsider hit dice are great, yes. You won't have Outsider hit dice. That's for racial 'levels' like some monsters have.
User avatar
Murdling
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Michigan, Bay City

Re: Native Outsider

Postby tachus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:23 am

Yeah the only benefits you will receive are those listed in the class ability, ie the dark vision and some spell immunity
"Oderint Dum Metuant" - Emperor Caligula

"Experience is not what happens to a man; It is what a man does with what happens to him." - Aldous Huxley

PCs: Sambiir TaKorc-Wands, Vairc Delvaux, Kell Ironclaw, Zander Stormwave
User avatar
tachus
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:13 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Stam » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:40 am

Plus no longer being a valid target for any number of spells that specifically target the "humanoid" type.
User avatar
Stam
 
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:50 pm

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Murdling » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:44 am

Though it does mean you can now use Alter-Self to do a few insane things
User avatar
Murdling
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Michigan, Bay City

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Ian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:59 pm

Most of it's already been touched on above.

Pros of Outsider (Native) Type for PCs:
- Proficiency with all martial weapons. Yup, that's a thing.
- Darkvision 60 feet.
- Immunity to spells that specifically target the Humanoid type (charm person, hold person, etc). This is occasionally bad (enlarge person), but mostly good.
- Ability to select Outsider species when using shape-shifting spells such as alter self that typically only allow you to choose forms of your own type. Outsider forms of a particular Hit Die count are typically much better than humanoids of the same HD, so this is a net boost to Outsider Transmuters.

Neutral Functions of Outsider (Native) Type for PCs:
- Your alignment registers more strongly to detection spells such as detect evil (that spell specifies "evil outsider," not "outsider with the [Evil] subtype").
- As a native outsider, you can be resurrected normally. You still have to eat, sleep, and breathe. Even though you're an outsider, you're not susceptible to banishment or dismissal if you're on the Prime.
- You do not get full BAB, all good saves, or 8+Int skills; an outsider with 20 levels of Wizard, for instance, still has BAB +10. Those particular functions of the type are based entirely on Racial Hit Dice, which no race we allow here grants. (As Murd alluded to, Outsider and Dragon Racial HD are the best in the game, and it's not close.)

Cons of Outsider (Native) Type for PCs:
- Spells that specifically target outsiders (and do not specify extraplanar vs. native) affect you. As mentioned, this includes spells such as bolt of glory. Most of these are attack spells, which sucks for you.

Side Note: We do allow one race here that is of the (Extraplanar) subtype, the Star Elves. They're LA+1, they're Extraplanar Humanoids rather than Outsiders (for some reason), and they're...different. Don't lump them in with the stuff above.
User avatar
Ian
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:53 pm

Re: Native Outsider

Postby tooitalian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:56 pm

I went through a wide list of spells that only target humanoids, only one was a buff (enlarge person) but this matters little with Righteous Might. The rest are mainly necromancy and enchantment spells, with a few attack spells. Thanks for the summary Ian, it really helped me make a decision.

Now on a slightly related note, would this also change your appearance?
He who laughs last, laughs alone.
User avatar
tooitalian
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Native Outsider

Postby Ian » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:22 pm

The rules are silent on that. My assumption would be somewhere between "no" and "if you want it to, yeah, it might make some subtle tweaks."
User avatar
Ian
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:53 pm


Return to OOC Questions, Answers & Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron