The Fun Alignment Debate

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The Fun Alignment Debate

Postby Mark » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:52 pm

So maybe some of are just that geek that when we read a book, comic, etc, we are forced to say, "Hey, what alignment is this guy?"

So I figured, why not put the question out there.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the possible alignment of FICTIONAL characters from any medium. Whether comics, movies, books and so forth, bring them forward and talk about what alignment you might think they might be. Bring up new character ideas, or rehash old ones.

Only big rules: Explain why you think they have a certain Alignment, preferably with examples. Also, do not insult someone for their opinions. And yes, no matter how well you think you can slide something through, most of us can pick up sarcasm.

And so we begin with something simple:


Darth Vader: Lawful Evil

I find that Darth Vader is the epitome of Lawful Evil. Tyrannical in his rule, he is truly works in a Machiavellian mindset. He punishes failure harshly while only rewarding sparingly. He remains true to his word while not needlessly sending underlings to their death, even while working toward an agenda. Likewise, he seems to work with honor. Rather than simply killing Luke, Han Solo or Leia when he has the chance out of pure opportunism, he keeps them alive due to promises he has made to other individuals, even if he twists the circumstances in some regard. Likewise, he knows he is under the Emperor, and serves him in the role rather dutifully.
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Postby Alex_Knight » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:33 am

The Kurgan: Chaotic Evil
An easy obvious one. His mind is set on only one thing, and that's The Prize. He'll do anything and everything in his power to make sure that it is his, with disregard to all life, not just other Immortals. He tries to off Connor before he's even found to be Immortal, and when he learns the girl knows how to find Connor in modern(ish) day, he takes her, driving recklessly through the streets with disregard to her life and the lives of all the others driving on the same stretch of road.
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Postby ilanian » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:37 am

I would also say that the same goes for the other Kurgen's in the Highlander movies, although there are many who say there is only one other Kurgen.
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Postby Rosemadder » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:49 pm

Garfield.

Chaotic Evil

One, he hogs ALL the lasagna. That's BAD. Also, he likes to torture his companion dog and his own relatives like Nermal. Three, he is particularly disinterested in any quid pro quo kindness such as his owner shows to him.
Four, he sets a bad example for small children, in that he teaches them to eat more than their fair share of lasagna.
This is also evil.
Because, now i have to share MY portions with my Garfield-reading son. ASSHAT GARFIELD!
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Postby Xairren » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:43 pm

(ROFL... Thanks Mark!)

Charlie Brown - Neutral Good
Always offering a helping hand, regardless of the ridicule he receives.
He is aware of the rules but is willing to bend them just a bit.
Hopelessly trusting of his archenemies, Lucy
"Oh brother." - Charlie Brown


Lucy - Chaotic Neutral
Lucy is willing to do anything for personal profit and/or pleasure. She is not above selling advice that may or may not help, because she just does not care. And of course her most pleasurable moment is the deception and ridicule of Charlie Brown.
"Eck! My lips touched dog lips!"- Lucy


Finally, in the words of my hero.... "Aaugh!" - Charlie Brown
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Postby Guest » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:39 pm

Rosemadder wrote:Garfield.

Chaotic Evil

One, he hogs ALL the lasagna. That's BAD. Also, he likes to torture his companion dog and his own relatives like Nermal. Three, he is particularly disinterested in any quid pro quo kindness such as his owner shows to him.
Four, he sets a bad example for small children, in that he teaches them to eat more than their fair share of lasagna.
This is also evil.
Because, now i have to share MY portions with my Garfield-reading son. ASSHAT GARFIELD!


What? No way.. Garfield is more Chaotic Neutral. He's always helping the mice, even when John wants them gone. Sometimes, he's even nice to Odie or John (even if it's a rarity). And he doesn't always manage to torture the spiders, besides, they're scary. I think he teeters on good and evil... but hardly evil.
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V

Postby Guest » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:47 pm

V from V for Vendetta

Lawful Good. He follows the spirit of justice, and does what needs to be done for the better of all the people. He's not chaotic because he's not random. Everything is calculated and if you're smart, you know his moves. He's not neutral because he follows the letter of good, and can forgive as well as any. He makes mistakes of course and does allow for his own revenge. But the revenge follows for the most part, in line with the value of good.

He's not evil because he's not really out for his own gain. He is..but at the same time he isn't.
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Postby Stam » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:58 pm

Alucard from Hellsing

Evil, no question here. He does good under orders, but the guy's pure evil to the core. Mass murder is something he thrives on and just plain loves doing.
C-L axis is a little harder. Sometimes he comes across as pure CE, "I did that because I wanted to," and other times more as NE. I'd personally put him in the latter.
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Re: V

Postby Mark » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:56 pm

driochtor wrote:V from V for Vendetta

Lawful Good. He follows the spirit of justice, and does what needs to be done for the better of all the people. He's not chaotic because he's not random. Everything is calculated and if you're smart, you know his moves. He's not neutral because he follows the letter of good, and can forgive as well as any. He makes mistakes of course and does allow for his own revenge. But the revenge follows for the most part, in line with the value of good.

He's not evil because he's not really out for his own gain. He is..but at the same time he isn't.


I disagree. Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean random in terms of action. Chaotic characters can still create plans and have thought out schemes.

I would say he would be Chaotic Good. A Lawful Good character would work within the system to change it through legislation, while V works directly against the system. A comparable person to him would be Robin Hood, whom is most definitely CG
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Postby Guest » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:01 pm

And speaking of working within the system.


Dogbert- Lawful evil

Dilberts little pet who thrives on exploiting the system in order to abuse stupid people for his own amusement. His philosophies hold that intelligence determines who is fit to lead and who is fit to dance like a little puppet on a string. And of course seeing as though he's the smartest creature on the planet, he's the only one truly fit to rule it.
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Superman

Postby Guest » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:34 pm

Superman

Lawful Good
Irritatingly so, Superman won't do -anything- against the law (with the exception of breaking and entering). He refuses to steal, even when it's to a better cause, and won't kill bad guys. He'll even save the villains if their life would be in danger. Ugh..Superman.
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Re: V

Postby Guest » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:36 pm

Mark wrote:
driochtor wrote:V from V for Vendetta

Lawful Good. He follows the spirit of justice, and does what needs to be done for the better of all the people. He's not chaotic because he's not random. Everything is calculated and if you're smart, you know his moves. He's not neutral because he follows the letter of good, and can forgive as well as any. He makes mistakes of course and does allow for his own revenge. But the revenge follows for the most part, in line with the value of good.

He's not evil because he's not really out for his own gain. He is..but at the same time he isn't.


I disagree. Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean random in terms of action. Chaotic characters can still create plans and have thought out schemes.

I would say he would be Chaotic Good. A Lawful Good character would work within the system to change it through legislation, while V works directly against the system. A comparable person to him would be Robin Hood, whom is most definitely CG



I disagree. If you're a cleric, following Hoar, you have to be lawful, but you're not required to follow the law, only the -spirit- of the law. So I don't think he's chaotic at all. He follows the spirit of justice/law just not a fascist law ;-)
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Postby ilanian » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:51 am

Batman

I'm going to call him LG, with some explanation. While he doesn't follow the laws of the city, he does strictly follow his own laws, and what he does he does for the common good.

Feel free to debate this one.
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Postby Deaths_Mask » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:41 am

Punisher

I'll have to say, just as V and Batman, Lawful Good. Though he blows the written law to kingdom come and back again, he follows his own code. Ah, military trained vigilante's... Gotta love em.

The Hulk

The ultimate Chaotic Neutral? Not really good because of his anger management issues, but at the same time, he's too good to be evil. When you have other super-heroes trained in taking you down, something says you're more neutral than good, if only by circumstance.

STEWIE!

The ultimate evil! Nothing more can be said because he explains himself.
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Postby Andy » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:55 pm

This is me debating the Lawful Good point for Punisher, V, and Batman.

To put my point it simply, "Lawful" suggests respect for authority, and all three of those characters are fundimentally and aggressively contemptuious of authority and at least two of them work in ways that knowingly subvert social order. (Two of them also change their M.O. depending on who's writing the comic, movie, or TV Show, Batman in particular, so it's subject to change.)

Very, very few people live completely free of a code of ethics. To my mind (which isn't always in step with everyone else's, so you know, take it with a grain of salt) a Good person on the Chaotic end of the spectrum views personal responsibility and independant action as being more important to maintaining the good of the group than the social contract itself. It doesn't mean their ethical beliefs are loosely formed or that they aren't codified.

((Also, those who read the comic will remember V's "Justice has betrayed me, Anarchy is my new mistress" speech, before he blows up the statue of Justice at the parliment.))
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